APCCIRN-035 APCCIRN Meeting Minutes 1993.9.8 1993.8.20-21 San Francisco FORMAL ACTIONS TO BE TAKEN FOLLOWING THE MEETING APNIC Pilot Project takes place between September 1993 and June 1994. The project is coordinated by Nakayama. John Houlker coordinates commercial and general service providers in Asia-Pacific. * Agenda Item 1 Welcome/Approval of Agenda APCCIRN Chair, Kilnam Chon opened the meeting at 13:30 with introduction of participants and a review of the agenda. See Appendix for the participant list. * Agenda Item 5 Commercial/General Service Operations Commercial and general service providers in USA gave overview presentations as follows; CIX by Bill Washburn ANS by Guy Almes Sprint by Farooq Hussain Global Enterprise Service(JvNCnet) by Sergio Heker Presentation materials are provided by CIX, ANS, and Sprint. We could not see presentations from other relevant US service providers such as Cerfnet and Alternet. The following commercial and general service providers in Asia-Pacific gave brief presentation as they are expected to give full presentation at the next APCCIRN meeting in Taipei; IIJ, Japan ATT Jens, Japan Dacom, Korea Supernet, Hong Kong Technet, Singapore Cooperation and collaboration among the commercial and general service providers in Asia and Pacific were discussed next. It was agreed that we need clearing house for them, and the following collaboration needs to be discussed; Within Asia and Pacific Commercial/General Service Providers and R&E Service Providers Between Asia-Pacific and Other Continents The next meeting provides the forum to have presentations from the providers in Asia and Pacific, and further issues shall be discussed. J. Houlker volunteered to coordinate on this matter. Kilnam Chon summarized the impact on the AP region of the earlier presentations regarding the US transition. Things will be uncertain for awhile. There are two real problems for the region: transit traffic and AUP. Further discussion indicated that it is unclear what will be the impacts of the changes on NSFnet. NASA is currently examining its policies on international links and the use of "fat pipes" which can be multiplexed and shared with other agencies. A question was raised as to whether the Japanese Real World Computing (RWC) link across the U.S. could be used for international transit traffic. It was noted that there are both technical and policy issues to be considered and that at this time RWC has not made any decisions on this. * Agenda Item 7f Project Report Curtis Hardyck gave a brief report on the Pacific Neighborhood Consortium and its activities. The next meeting will be in Hong Kong in January 1994. * Agenda Item 2 Minutes Honolulu Meeting The previous minutes were reviewed. These are available on-line through the APCCIRN server. * Agenda Item 3 Past Meeting Report a) Kilnam Chon reviewed the activities of the CCIRN. Up to seven delegates from each of the three regions can participate in the bi-annual meetings. There are generally opportunities for additional participation from the region and interested parties should contact the APCCIRN chair. Minutes are on-line through the APCCIRN server. b) Geoff Huston reviewed the activities of the IEPG. It has been largely focusing on issues relating to scaling of the Internet. This includes the GIX, routing registries and issues surrounding quality of service. Minutes are on-line through the APCCIRN server. c) Haruhisa Ishida reviewed the activities of the ISOC Board of Trustees (BOT). More membership, especially corporate membership, from the region is needed. The high individual membership fees were noted as a barrier to membership in the region. There was interest in national or regional chapters in the AP area, but the BOT has not yet established formal structures and procedures for chapters. APCCIRN supports the BOT in moving forward with this. Jun Murai reviewed the IAB and IETF and their activities including liaison to international standards bodies such as ISO and ITU, work in IP scaling and address space problems, security, copyright, CIDR and IP-Next Generation. Much more participation from the region is urged, including electronically via the mailing lists. IETF will meet in the AP region once every other year. * Agenda Item 4 APCCIRN Document Update Kilnam Chon reminded members that many documents and databases are available through the APCCIRN servers. All members should provide up-to-date information about all links, projects and contacts in their countries so that the databases remain current and accurate. * Agenda Item 6 Work Items General discussion of work items took place in preparation for the next day's working session. Key items were identified to be: APNIC, Developing Countries and Internationalization/Localization. Others items were considered to be background, monitoring and liaison activities at this time. More participants from all countries are needed for all work items and signups were solicited. Internationalization/Localization All countries using non-English characters are especially urged to get involved in this project. Jun Murai briefly presented their work on a multi-lingual version of Emacs, MULE, which presents interfaces to most major applications. An RFC has been submitted on their method of coding. He urged APCCIRN members to experiment with this working software which already handles most languages in the region using existing international standards. Discussion brought out the variety of language coding standards. At the next APCCIRN meeting a long session will be dedicated to making progress on this work item, with presentations on each language followed by a general panel discussion. Conference All countries with national networking conferences are urged to send this information to the APCCIRN secretariat. There was some consideration of how to best expand this activity to serve developing countries, perhaps through a new regional networking conference. Meeting participants reviewed various national networking and other conferences. These include: Australia's AARNET meeting; Korea's joint networking meeting, KRNET, which tries to serve both academics and practitioners; Singapore's networking tutorial and workshop; Thailand is thinking of a national networking seminar; and the Joint Workshop on Computing and Communication (JWCC), an annual regional conference which started in 1986. All meetings are experiencing exceptional growth and demand. Discussion took place as to the best timing for APCCIRN meetings and related seminars which might support developing countries, including the possibility of various appropriate meetings with which to colocate. There was also some discussion of establishing a new regional Internet-related meeting. Developing Countries More work is needed to bring developing countries on-line to the network. Other international organizations are working in Latin America and Africa. The Middle East is largely ignored. A project in the AP region is needed to help also. It was also noted that only 12 of the 126 invitees to the INET '93 developing countries workshop were from the AP region, and that this should be increased. Australia has been active in supporting networking in developing countries in the region. Something like the Africa project, RINAF, with support from the UN and some developed countries, might be desirable. Discussion of possible funding sources took place and will continue in the future. The University of Sydney is willing to accept UUCP connections from any developing country at no charge (other than the cost of the call to Sydney) and provide access to the Internet. Sites with Unix machines can get improved software to operate over dialup links for these connections. Also PEACESAT can now provide the Pacific Basin with dialup access to the Internet via 9600bps point-to-point satellite connections to the University of Hawaii. APNIC Jun Murai reviewed the development of the NIC movement from a single network information center in the U.S. to regional/national NICs, primarily to handle allocation of IP addresses. The international authority now lies with IANA, under the auspices of ISOC. The vision now is for an global NIC with regional authority delegated to regional NICs, such as InterNIC in the Americas and RIPE NCC in Europe. More information on past APCCIRN discussions is in the past minutes on the server. A decision on how to move forward is required at the next APCCIRN meeting. Status reports from the KRNIC and JPNIC national NIC projects were presented. Then, Jun Murai proposed changes in the pilot project on AP Network Information Center (APNIC), which was approved at the last meeting . The project period is changed to September 1993 - June 1994. The most important function would be handling block allocation of addresses in the region. This might help if and when CIDR technology is deployed, in order to help routing in Asia and the Pacific. It was recommended that members from each country participate in the APNIC Pilot Project. If approved by the APCCIRN, this pilot project would help determine how to meet the needs in the region over the long-term. During the pilot phase, prime focus would be on the Internet Registry and Routing Registry functions. Limited attention would be given to informational functions until after a decision on a long-term approach for the region. JPNIC has agreed to provide resources for the pilot project. Some of the issues to be studied during the pilot include: how to allocate address space, how to work with international networks, how to identify and work with country contacts, etc. During discussion it was decided that APCCIRN would serve as a de facto Board during the pilot, that the pilot should run through June 1994 in order to provide time for a transition from the pilot to an operational APNIC. A group will be formed to develop proposals for funding the APNIC over the long term after the pilot. * Agenda Item 7 Meetings/Project Report The next APCCIRN meeting will address commercial operation, the APNIC, Internationalization/Localization, and link/transit traffic issues. Possible meetings around which APCCIRN could be colocated are: JWCC in Taiwan in December, an AIT networking meeting in Bangkok in January, PNC in Hong Kong in January, or the CCIRN meeting which will be in Asia in January. Several members proposed that meeting just before JWCC in Taipei on December 10-11 would be desirable. The next meeting after that will be colocated around INET '94 in Prague, tentatively June 17-18. Other future networking meetings were discussed. The following is the current schedule; 1993.11.1-5 IETF Houston 12.10-11 APCCIRN Taiwan 12.12-14 JWCC Taiwan 1994. 1.17-18 PNC Hong Kong 3. IEPG/IETF Seattle 6.13-17 INET Prague, Czech 6.17-18 APCCIRN Prague, Czech 6.20-21 CCIRN (Europe) 7. IETF Toronto In addition, Interop will be held as follows; 1993.10.25-29 Paris 1994. 5.2-6 Las Vegas 6.6-10 Berlin 7.25-29 Tokyo 9. Atlanta 10.24-28 Paris APPENDIX: APCCIRN Meeting Participants 1993.9.1 Robin Erskine Australia Australian National University Geoff Huston Australia AARNET Bob Kummerfeld Australia University of Sydney Yinglin Ma China Chinese Academy of Sciences Hualin Qian China Chinese Academy of Sciences Yuhany Zhang China Chinese Academy of Sciences Che-Hoo Cheng Hong Kong The Chinese University of Hong Kong Bob Coggershall Hong Kong Supernet Kin-Ming Fung Hong Kong The Chinese University of Hong Kong R. Santoso Indonesia BPP Teknologi Akiko Aizawa Japan NACSIS Shoichiro Asano Japan NACSIS David Conrad Japan IIJ H. Fukubeppu Japan CAREN Shigeki Goto Japan Masaki Hirabaru Japan Kyushu University Haruhisa Ishida Japan University of Tokyo T. Kumazawa Japan CAREN Jun Matsukata Japan ISAS Toshifumi Matsumoto Japan AT&T Jens/Spin Project Takayasu Matsuzaki Japan IBM Japan Mizuho Mori Japan BITNETJP/JOIN Masaya Nakayama Japan University of Tokyo / JPNIC Devendra Narayan Japan CAREN Okwhan Byun Korea KREONet / SERI Kilnam Chon Korea Academic Network Council Sunyoung Han Korea Konkuk University John Houlker New Zealand NZREIN S. Rizvi Pakistan MunHow Chew Singapore National Science and Technology Milton Choo Singapore National University of Singapore Mun-Hou Choo Singapore NSTB Abhaya Induruwa Sri Lanka University of Moratuwa Chien-Liu Chen Taiwan Institute for Information Industry Wen-Sung Chen Taiwan Ministry of Education Albert Liou Taiwan Institute for Information Industry Li-Ming Tseng Taiwan National Centeral University Tanongkiete Auponno Thailand Chiangmai University M. Chiwaganont Thailand Prachak Poomvises Thailand Chulalongkorn University Kamales Santivejkul Thailand Chulalongkorn University Guy Almes USA ANS Robert Collet USA Sprint Curtis Hardyck USA Pacific Neighborhood Consortium Sergio Heker USA Global Enterprise Services Inc. David Lassner USA University of Hawaii / PACCOM Rozanne Streeter USA NASA Bill Washburn USA CIX Ken Adler USA/HK Penril Datability Inc. Farooq Hussain USA/UK Sprint